hell yea!

Very true I deal with people like this in my office very day

Yes, they are unfortunately irreversibly stained.

The darkness which they choose despite all your attempts to enlighten them for their growth.

But don't ever forget that sometimes you can see what they cannot. Sometimes you can say or do something so special and loving it's as if you have given them the key to open that dark prison in which they've locked themselves. Sometimes they just haven't heard it from the right person the right way. Help people find the light. (and I know you do, Dina.)

Darrin- Thank You. I agree we can be the reason to open a little window at least if not fo a door out of their darkness. Its just that via my own personal experiences, its natural to get exhausted when you have tried SO hard to convince good to a very few people in your vicinity you care about. It gets SO much MORE frustrating when its your own family. Hope, You understand the emotional effects.

Totally!! my attempts to lighten a very darkened friend recently.. left me wondering why she chooses darkness when faced with a choice .. but maybe because I have made that choice.. I now see it as a no-brainer.. when once I may not have been so aware.. still.. I sadly have left her to figure it out for herself.

Love this one Dina:)

I believe that sometimes it does take the right person in someones life to be the light, but timing is also a factor. Trust that the right person will show them the way when the time is right.

I believe it is part of our responsibility as communicators/trainers to make deaf ears listen. Part of our effectiveness to make a topic interesting even for those. ;-)

Dina Aba Yazeed, Jen, Darrin- completely agree with you but sometimes, their darkness is so deep that they become deaf, thus, whatever u do wont' work coz they won't listen, so, we can't change them, I've been there, and it only made ME sad and in despair and they weren't affected one bit, tried everything really... in this case, i think Dina Sadik is talking about the hopeless ones, not a general rule, coz some can be FIXED while others r far too BROKEN...

@Mai, that's what I meant..

@Gail, you too are correct for everyone is salvageable..but in their own time..so when they're ready they will be receptive.

@Dina, you're correct too, I know what it is to utilize different modalities to suit a mixed audience..

With a statement, there will always be different views based on the information we have internalized through our varied backgrounds but certain core values will

Jen- exactly, that's what i meant, but probably couldn't explain it "u can enter only if they open"

I agree Dina. Experience has taught me that. People have to find the light themselves. Once they want to see and to hear, then they do, but not before.

Mai + Jennifer + Gail + Lena + Lareann-
Agreed with all of You. As much as I believe some CHOOSE NOT to listen, I also believe there is a time and place for every lesson- The reincarnation of our minds. Just remember a time when someone kept telling you the same thing over and over, and then someone else recently walked into our lives and cleared the same point in a VARIANT perspective? I have realized no matter HOW hard we may try to convince someone good, they prefer to hear it via their own language, via THAT which appeals to them.

Apart from all attempts, what I do lately is pray for their Guidance. Allah/ God has the ability to do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. HE can soften hearts and minds of the most stubborn creatures. SO its not our duty to change them but simply hold their hands and show them the enlightenment they are blindfolded from enjoying. Trust me, this is particularly disappointing when its your family. 'Cos you LOVE them TOO dearly to EVER give Up....


But there is never a limit to prayers right? We can ALWAYS pray for their betterment in every aspect, which is the ONLY thing for which I have strength after trying ALL various versions of attempts. 'Cos trust me beyond a point they tend to get IMMUNE to your music. After all its the same source. If you don't like a singer- I mean if you REALLY don't like a singer, chances are pretty slim we'd like their music- Unless they go through a huge make over ;) But then with our minds crumbs been sprinkled over them how much can we change? Hence, sprinkle ALL the dew drops and fragrance you can humanly, beyond that let the music of God do the rest.

Dina Aba- Yes, there is nothing to lose by trying, but there comes a point where one should draw the line. How much time can one give to those who INTERNALLY refuse to absorb? Perhaps there is someone else out there WAITING to hear us out who REALLY needs our words and nurturing. Wouldn't You rather be moving a mountain waiting on its toes simply for your gentle fingers to give it a light push of guidance?

I wholeheartedly agree Dina.. having spent years trying to help friends who weren't really ready to be helped.. I have learned to concentrate my energies on me and radiate love peace and happiness as a way of life.. and that is drawing to me some people who are in need of my help and are trying their best to change.. whereas those friends who are not yet open to this.. all I have the energy to do is wish them love and send them blessings and pray that they will open their minds and hearts one day to what is possible.. 'sprinkling dew drops and fragrance' is a beautiful way to describe this.. thank you Dina and everyone for such a wonderful discussion.. its great to hear everyone's experience and loving thoughts xxx

A man convinced against his will is of the same mind still. I forget who said that first. I know that it is frustrating and exhausting but all you can do is try. You are not responsible for them to listen. You can lead horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Also to love people where they are is something important that I am learning.